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The LLVLC Show (Episode 524): Kevin Brown Makes The Case That The ‘Paleo Diet’ Doesn’t Exist

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In Episode 524 of “The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show with Jimmy Moore,” I’ve got a doozy for you with what is arguably one of the most controversial podcast interviews ever as evidenced by the kind of feedback I have received about it since it aired earlier this week. It’s returning podcast guest Kevin Brown (listen to my previous interview with him in Episode 369), author of The Liberation Diet, who maintains the bold position that there’s really no such thing as the “Paleo diet” based on his understanding of the Bible. Earlier this year I wrote a blog post entitled “Can A Christian Follow A Paleo Low-Carb Diet?” and Kevin responded to my question by denying the existence of an evolutionary perspective. I knew when I recorded this episode that it was gonna fire people up–boy did it ever! When you receive both praise and hate mail from people about the same interview, you must be doing something right.

One of the people who e-mailed me after hearing this podcast, which he described as “bad,” exclaimed matter-of-factly that “evolution is a fact…the Bible is a fairy tale.” Because I shared in a follow-up e-mail with him that I’m a Christian who does not believe in the Darwinian theory of evolution and that the Bible has great meaning in my life, he actually cancelled his reservations for The Low-Carb Cruise coming up in May 2012. Oh well, it’s his loss and seems rather immature to do over a simple disagreement about something a podcast interview guest shared. Very strange.

Another more reasonable response was an e-mail that stated “as I listened I wondered why you weren’t hitting him with the science, but what emerged for me was an amazing demonstration of just how easy it is for humans to fall into believing all kinds of things and how important it is for all of us to seek the truth and question things.” Finally, another voice of wisdom in the comments section of my podcast web site noted that “the free exchange of ideas is central if we are going to make any progress. Granted, this openness to expression can give some views, which may seem ostensibly idiotic to some, a platform to be heard, but that is the price we pay for progress.”

Wanna hear what all the fuss is about in today’s podcast? Then you gotta listen to my half-hour interview with what is sure to be my most interesting, thought-provoking guest of 2011…maybe ever! ENJOY!

Listen to Kevin Brown explain his strict anti-Paleo stance:

  • Why he believes there is no such thing as a Paleo diet
  • How evolution denies the Biblical principles of God
  • The Paleo diet concept makes the evolution theory true
  • Whether Paleo diet followers are wrong or misled
  • Why the health aspects of Paleo are “rather good”
  • How the existence of the Paleo diet “denies God”
  • Whether Adam and Eve were hunter-gatherers
  • Why Adam and Eve were vegetarians
  • How God “changed the diet” after the fall of man
  • When man started eating animals for the first time
  • What changed between the days of Adam & Eve to Noah
  • How we know there was fire in the Garden of Eden
  • The ideas and commands about food have evolved
  • Diet reflects the specific timeline in history
  • Eating cooked food is more Biblically-based than raw food
  • If God commands eating cooked meat, then it must be right
  • The “fantasy stories” about cavemen promoted by Paleo
  • The Paleo diet existence “makes God a liar”
  • Whether we can mesh the message of Paleo with the Bible
  • Why he says eating a low-carb diet is Biblical
  • Why saturated fat is essential in God’s perfect nutrition
  • The inclusion of “a little bit of honey” is a good thing
  • What about people who don’t believe in God or the Bible?
  • Why he says Paleo is “superior” for non-believers
  • Why Paleo should be called the “evolutionary theory diet”
  • “Spiritual Side Of Healthy Eating”

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    There are four ways you can listen to Episode 524:

    1. Listen at the iTunes page for the podcast:

    2. Listen and comment about the show at the official web site for the podcast:

    3. Download the MP3 file of Episode 524 [30:37m]:

    4. Listen on the Stitcher app–NO DOWNLOADING!

    THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING THIS PODCAST! If these twice-weekly podcast interviews from the most provocative and thought-provoking diet, fitness, and health experts have helped you in any way over the past few months and years, then help us keep it going by clicking on the DONATE button on the official podcast web site. We love making these exclusive interviews available to you at no charge so that the positive low-carb message can get out there to the people who need to hear it the most. We are so grateful for your generous donations of any amount so we can keep this going all throughout the rest of 2011 and well into 2012. Brand new interview expert guests are being lined up for your listening enjoyment and I can’t wait for you to hear them share about what a healthy lifestyle change looks like! Go to PayPal.com and you can give your gift of any amount to the e-mail address livinlowcarbman@charter.net. Your continued financial support and listenership is essential to keeping this podcast alive and well and we THANK YOU so very much for your support!

    What did you think about Kevin Brown’s Biblical argument against the idea of a Paleo diet? Share your thoughts (good, bad or ugly!) in the show notes section of Episode 524. Check out more from Kevin Brown at “Liberation Wellness,” listen to my June 2010 interview with Kevin, and read his column about today’s featured topic called “Spiritual Side Of Healthy Eating.”

    This was the final podcast of 2011 and I’m grateful for another fantastic year of exponential growth in this show thanks to the amazing word of mouth so many of you have given us. THANK YOU! We’ll be taking some time off during the holidays but will return with BRAND NEW INTERVIEWS from your favorite guests of 2011 during “Encore Week” 2012. You’re gonna hear again from Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, Paul Jaminet, Jenny Ruhl, Dr. William Davis and Dr. Jack Kruse. I’m recording these interviews over the next week and will air them January 2-6, 2012! I CAN’T WAIT! Then starting on January 9, 2012 we’ll begin airing THREE new podcast interviews weekly on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Onward and upward in 2012!

    If you have something to share about what you heard on “The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show,” then drop us an e-mail at our dedicated podcast e-mail address–LLVLCShow@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from you about what you think about the show, interview guest suggestions, show topics, and anything else you want to share! I LOVE hearing from my listeners, so share what’s on your mind.

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    December 23rd, 2011 | Tags: , , , , , , , , , , | Category: 1
    • Tula

      I must admit that I don’t get how sane and intelligent people can deny evolution, what with all the supporting evidence. I don’t even see that evolution really conflicts with the Bible, either. In Catholic school, we were taught that the Bible uses stories to explain things and teach lessons, so I don’t find it hard to believe that perhaps God created the process of evolution. I guess that conflicts with those who take the Bible literally (well, the parts they choose to follow, anyway :-)   I’ve always been a little jaded about the whole “God actually cares what you eat” argument when faced with dietary restrictions of various religions.  But hey, that’s what freedom in this country is all about.

      To each his own. I think it’s kind of like how we tailor our diets to our own individual bodies. People can tailor theirown beliefs to what works for them. We’re all different. As long as we’re not forced to compromise our beliefs, it’s all good.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UIR6PYNT2YTFJTHKSF6CYCICMY Lawrence

      Jimmy,

      I wrote a pretty lengthy post, in response to your interview with Kevin Brown, on your show page, so I will keep this brief. Again, you are to be commended on allowing contrary points of view on your show, no matter how absurd they maybe, because many times farfetched ideas may have some truth in them. History definitely attests to this. However, as I explained at length, in my response to your interview, Kevin Brown’s espousal of Biblical literalism as his standard for dismissing the evolutionary evidence for the Paleo diet is only convincing to those people who share his literalistic reading of the Bible.

      For those living in an evidence based world, and not one based on the legendary nonsense of an ignorant people (i.e. much of the Bible), Brown’s views are just fiction masquerading as fact. He doesn’t bring up any evidence against evolution, and since modern biology is predicated on evolution, and evolution has been established as a fact, and the vast majority of scientists view it as a fact, we can be confident that a dietary paradigm, such as the Paleo diet, has much scientific merit.

      I always find it odd how men like Brown speak about how there is no evidence for evolution. This highlights either a gross level of intellectual dishonesty on his part or a colossal amount of ignorance. Yet, this same type of man, who demands evidence for evolution (when unimaginable volumes of evidence exist if he were to search for it), doesn’t demand evidence for the Bible. He doesn’t demand evidence demonstrating that his Bible is indeed ENTIRELY inspired by God’s wisdom (supposing there is even a God, and he is interested in inspiring books). This is a huge double standard. If you are intellectually honest, and you demand evidence for evolution, why wouldn’t you also demand evidence for whether the Bible is truly a reflection of the will of a supposed God?

      What worries me about Kevin Brown, and his insistence on evangelizing nonsense, is that many people will think that because they are Christian, that they have to follow what the Bible says about diet. And despite what Kevin Brown asserts, there is much in the Bible which can be construed as mandating a high carbohydrate, primarily grain based diet, since people are shown eating  just that in much of the Bible.

      So this isn’t just some innocent way of proselytizing,  when Brown states these things as if they were fact, or worse, divinely mandated. His advice, of using the Bible as an instruction manual for diet, especially for someone who is overweight, diabetic, or having some other metabolic issues, can have some dire consequences.

      I don’t care how much of a Biblical literalist you are. Even a Biblical literalist, if they don’t want their child to get tuberculosis, small pox, etc, will use  science based vaccinations, instead of looking at Genesis for protection.  If you want to mend a broken leg, you don’t consult the book of Leviticus, you go get a cast on it by a doctor who is guided by science. So even if you consider yourself to be a literalist in the Bible, you still DO NOT rely  on the Bible to guide you in other areas of health and wellness, but rely on science, so why would you rely on the Bible as a guide concerning one of the most important areas of health – YOUR DIET? This is a question that every Biblical literalist must ask themselves.

      -Lawrence

      • Anonymous

        Thanks for your post Lawrence. Well said.

    • Bill Jones

      Well that went down like a lead balloon. Thank god I’m an atheist!

      • Anonymous

        Ha!

    • http://twitter.com/rmorranis rmorranis

      There’s a problem in the software that prevents me from linking anything (the comment says awaiting moderation and is never posted eg: in this thread)

      • Anonymous

        This measure is necessary to help to prevent spamming…I’ll check the spam filter and see if I can approve it. THANKS!

        • Anonymous

          They were in my pending approval box…you just needed to be a bit more patient to give me time to do that. :D THANKS buddy!

    • http://profiles.google.com/rdenzel Roland Denzel

      I think this would be an excellent diet for people to follow, assuming that they have always followed it OR have never become particularly fat, sick, or “metabolically challenged” by our modern dietary practices.

      One problem is that the Bible doesn’t cover how to get fit and healthy again once you’ve done yourself so much damage. My own church is full of people who obviously haven’t followed the Bible’s dietary “recommendations” for many years. Many are very overweight, and some of them do feel sick from wheat and other things that are fine for healthy people, despite the Bible telling us they are fine. It’s not particularly clear to me that the Bible says wheat is fine in moderation, either.

      I’m a Christian who follows a paleo-style diet, not because of the caveman, but because science points to many non-paleo foods having aspects that make us ill, especially when eaten or overeaten for many years. Having once been fat, I feel the effects of many of these foods more profoundly than many of my family members and friends, who’ve never been overweight. The damage, to me, has been done, and while I do feel much better after many years of being slim, I still have some issues to deal with.

      Personally, I welcome a diet that encourages Christians to eat more like their ancestors ate and doesn’t conflict with their beliefs.

      Roland

      • Anonymous

        Roland, you’re exactly right. Far too many Christian have just given up rather than seeking out ANYTHING that could make them healthier. It’s why we must all remain vigilant in sharing the message with as many people as we can.

      • Justinwallraven

        Roland,
        Why would Jesus call himself the “bread of life” if  wheat isn’t fine in moderation? Why would he feed the 5000 5 loaves (and just 2 fishes) if bread wasn’t an acceptable food? 

        I don’t mind when Kevin uses the bible to make the point that Saturated fat is ok because God ate it, but he can’t turn around and say carbs and fruit are bad when the bible says Jesus ate those things as well.

    • Batigego

      Can pagans follow a paleo diet?

      • Anonymous

        Kevin answered this one in the interview. ;)

    • Justinwallraven

      This frustrated me when I first read his book and it frustrates me more now that he’s digging in with this. I read just about every verse Kevin uses to promote low carb in the bible and came away with the opposite view of Kevins regarding carbs. (I’ve got no issue with his thoughts on saturated fat…I think Kevin is correct about that, but his assertion that the bible promotes low carb is just not correct. It’s not there.)

      I found this on Kevin’s blog post you linked to.
       ”
      However, there is a balance of bitterness to sweetness in this world that is parallel to our diet. Much of our food should be bitter or in the case of eating meat, reminding us of death and our constant problem of Sin. If we think that this world is heaven, and all things can be made right, then we will look to have an all-fruit diet (high-carbohydrate). We eat desserts constantly and Love the sugars in our diet! This means we think that this present earth is the Garden of Eden, and all is pleasant with our relationship with God. ” 

      Um…what? Though there was a lot of information I appreciated in this blog post, this particular (and entire) paragraph that I drew this link from is WAY out in left field with absolutely NO supporting texts. Though I think he’s reading too much into the symbolism of eating meat, if he is going to read into the symbolism of eating meat as a reminder of our fallen state of sin, he has to acknowledge the symbolism of consuming bread (Jesus is the bread of life) as the solution to that fallen state.  Therefore moderation of bread makes no sense based on his own symbolic logic.

      But that’s just symbolism. Let’s discuss the obvious. Jesus himself cursed a fig tree for NOT providing him with figs when he wanted them.  You can’t say “God himself ate butter and therefore His approval of saturated fat in implied in his consumption” and then on the other hand say “Jesus ate figs and bread yet fruit and carbs are NOT ok.” 

      You can’t say “God considers milk a blessing which is why he calls the promised land a ‘land of milk and honey’” and then say honey is NOT ok. It’s not consistent.

      While Kevin is correct that the Bible does support eating saturated fat and as part of a healthy diet, there are just as many if not more than promote eating carbs. Bread is everywhere in the bible. Nearly every reference he listed that promotes milk (which has carbs) or meat ALSO ALSO promotes either honey or bread. As I mentioned, Jesus obviously ate figs and bread and he fed the 5000 and 4000 bread. He served bread to his disciples at the passover and and even (as previously mentioned) calls himself the bread of life…which only makes sense if carbs are an appropriate part of our diet.  Reading this information and drawing the conclusion that this somehow means we should eat fewer carbs is just non intellectually consistent. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UIR6PYNT2YTFJTHKSF6CYCICMY Lawrence

        Justinwallraven,

        This was a great post. In my post I mainly questioned using the Bible as a source of dietary wisdom from the standpoint of someone who doesn’t believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.  I proposed that evolutionary theory is a much more solid foundation for dietary recommendations, and I spent a lot of time criticizing Mr. Brown for denying evolutionary theory. I only briefly touched on how the Bible mentions the consumption of carbohydates numerous times to underscore that the Bible can be used to prove ANY dietary paradig - including a high carb one. Thank you for really going into detail about this. If one thing is certain, the Bible certainly doesn’t provide clarity on this issue, even if one believes it to be inspired by God.

        -Lawrence

    • Justinwallraven

      Jimmy,
      Is there some reason you haven’t posted my comment from last week?

      • Anonymous

        Justin, I was in and out last week, but I approved all of the comments. I remember seeing something from you and approving it. Anyway, submit it again. Thanks buddy!

        • Justinwallraven

          Oh man. I wonder where it went? ha. I will never be able to remember what I wrote. Oh well, thanks anyways.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry buddy.

    • http://lowcarbhoo.wordpress.com/ Brandon

      I went and looked up Genesis 18 after listening to the podcast today.  I think this verse proves the exact opposite of his point.  I use the NET bible because it is a fair interpretation and also gives translation notes.  Gen 18:6 is where Abraham instructs his wife to “Take  three measures  of fine flour, knead it, and make bread.”  Three measures is “three seahs” in Hebrew and that translates in to 20 quarts of flour.  That’s a lot of bread!  I think, though, that was a rarity to eat so abundantly.  He most likely knew what a special occasion it was and wanted to prepare a royal feast.  Also, as Dr. Davis points out, the wheat that made that flour is nothing like the genetically modified wheat we eat today.