http://www.controlcarb.com/ccn-news-kimkinsisnotatkins.htm

There really is no comparison. Most of what Atkins writes about in the first book is about eating until you are satisfied, with no calorie limit. Atkins ’72 is a WHOLE lot healthier than Kimkins.

I concede that they are different–I never said they were exactly the same.

The principles behind the original Kimkins plan–not the boot camp or K/E plans–are taken directly from a combination of Stillman and Atkins ’72. (It doesn’t sound like you understand what the Kimkins plan is, exactly? Maybe you do, I don’t know.)

My major point was that the type of diet is nothing new and that the hysteria about health risks is unwarranted.

The comparison to Fat Fast and ’72 was to point out that low calorie is not a new idea in low carb dieting.

You are right that the Fat Fast and Kimkins are not the same thing.

Have a great holiday.

You can really have the last word.

I think we’ve both made our points.

Wow. You came back.

I don’t have the most updated version of NDR. My copy is from 2002 and includes the Fat Fast. If you have a newer copy, please enlighten me if it has the FF or not.

It is to be done for 4-5 days, no longer. It has 1,000 calories. That sounds NOTHING like Kimkins. After 4-5 days, if someone wishes to continue, they are to add 200 more calories (1200 calories a day) and do that for a week. After that they should go to Induction. Atkins makes it clear that the FF is DANGEROUS unless you are truly metabolically resistant.

BTW, the place I “heard” the FF was taken out of later editions was the official Atkins forums on their Web site.

I don’t see Atkins recommending low-calories in his old Diet Revolution book. Maybe it’s there, but all I am finding is that 1500 calories and 10g carbs will help you lose faster than 2000 calories and 10g carbs. I don’t see any recommendations for the typical 1200 calorie diet many plans today advocate.

I am not offended in the least, but you are dead wrong in equating Atkins ’72 and the Fat Fast with Kimkins. They are night and day and I have pointed out the differences.

To reinterate on the Fat Fast:
“Low calories is one thing. I *do* low calorie. But I do not do unsafe low calories. It’s extemely rare for me to be under 1200 a day. The Fat Fast is not long term and it nothing like Kimkins. KK is protein with very little fat and long term; the Fast Fast is nearly all fat with very little protein and for only a few days. Night and day.”

Additionally, Atkins doesn’t uphold SNATT as something good. Any carbs withdrawals should pass and you should feel BETTER than before the diet, not worse.

Seriously, how are either the least bit similar? There are more differences than similarities.

Read the last sentence of your comment, my friend. You write:

“Too many people used it as a quick weight loss plan, so I heard it was taken out.”

That’s a cut and paste. Point: you were saying you “heard” it was taken out. I was saying its better to discuss things that we read in print rather than things we “heard”.

I’m sorry you are offended but there has been no improper debate form except for this latest exchange.

To summarize: My point has been that this diet and versions of it have been around for a long time. There is no sound and conclusive clinical evidence that it is dangerous when used to treat co-morbid obesity.

Your point is that you think it is dangerous. I get that. You are entitled to an opinion. An opinion that a lot will join you on.

However popular an opinion or an hypothesis is, it doesn’t create evidence. There is no evidence that it is harmful. Anecdotal reports of the type we hear on the internet are not hard evidence.

And when you are dealing with co-morbid obesity and something works, I hesitate to call it dangerous when there has been no conclusive evidence that such an approach (which doctors have also used for a long time) causes any damage that outweighs being severely obese.

Can we agree to disagree and leave Mr. Moore’s poor comment box alone without accusing the other one of poor form?

This is what we call an ad hominem attack–which is truly improper debate form.

So I’ll wish you the best, congratulate you on your size 8s and let you have the last word.

Happy Thanksgiving. Sincerely.

Thanks again, Jimmy.

Low calories is one thing. I *do* low calorie. But I do not do unsafe low calories. It’s extemely rare for me to be under 1200 a day. The Fat Fast is not long term and it nothing like Kimkins. KK is protein with very little fat and long term; the Fast Fast is nearly all fat with very little protein and for only a few days. Night and day.

So you misquote and then leave. How lovely. Use an improper form of debate and then run.