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Dr. Robert Lustig From 'Sugar: The Bitter Truth' Explains Why He Doesn't Believe In The Low-Carb Lifestyle

We live in an exciting day and age of information these days, don’t we? Thanks to the Internet, we have blogs, podcasts, and web sites galore providing information on anything and everything you can think of. The immense popularity of sites like Twitter, Facebook, Google, and YouTube makes finding new information on virtually any subject practically instantaneous right at your fingertips. And there’s plenty of invaluable stuff out there about health and nutrition that is worth taking a closer look at, including a 90-minute YouTube video by a pediatrics professor in California that has gone completely viral with most of the over 400,000 views and counting happening in 2010 alone.

Ever since he gave his now infamous lecture entitled “Sugar: The Bitter Truth” in July 2009 at the University of California-San Francisco “Mini Medical School for the Public” event, physician Dr. Robert H. Lustig who teaches pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology at UCSF has become somewhat of a hero in the low-carb and health community for exposing the truths about the dangers of fructose, the negative impact it is playing on health, and what we can do about it. I’ve had more people e-mail me a link to or tell me about this video than anything else in the 6+ year history of my web site and it is most certainly well worth your time and effort to sit down, watch, listen, re-listen, and absorb everything this man has to share because the concepts are vitally connected to everything I’ve shared over the years. This is the kind of truth that absolutely penetrates because it cannot be refuted by anyone. I personally invite you to take the time to watch it from start to finish–you’ll be glad you did!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

If you don’t quite have 90 minutes to sit down and watch Dr. Lustig’s talk right now (MAKE TIME LATER IF YOU DON’T!), then at least spend 10 minutes watching my fellow health blogger, podcaster, and YouTube buddy Sean Croxton from Underground Wellness provide an excellent Cliff’s Notes version of the lecture for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXCvduiAbs

This is precisely the kind of evidence-based science that needs to be spread as much as possible which is why I’ve been so thrilled to see Dr. Lustig’s lecture receiving worldwide acclaim as it is disseminated all across the Internet on blogs, Facebook pages, and more! Needless to say, Dr. Lustig is the kind of speaker I like to invite to be a guest on my “Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show” podcast because his philosophy seems to fit perfectly with the low-carb message. Or so I thought.

In January 2010 as the “Sugar: The Bitter Truth” video was becoming increasingly popular, I contacted Dr. Lustig directly to request an interview with him about his great work. I explained what my show was, that his message falls in line with the thinking of myself and my listeners, and that it would be an honor to have him appear for an interview. Within a day I heard back from him directly with a 5-word response: “I don’t believe in low-carb.”

REALLY?! I guess Dr. Lustig is in the same camp as Dr. Richard Johnson who contends fructose alone is responsible for obesity and disease. But Dr. Johnson has been a guest on my podcast show despite our differences regarding low-carb. Plus, I’ve had several others who don’t subscribe to low-carb living on the podcast as well, including most notably my 4-part interview with Dr. Dean Ornish. Just because the show has “low-carb” in the title doesn’t mean I don’t bring up other topics in the realm of diet, nutrition, fitness and health. Although I attempted to explain this to Dr. Lustig, I never heard back from him again in the months that followed. Maybe he just doesn’t give interviews or something. That’s what I chalked it up to.

Then on May 13, 2010, Sean Croxton announced on his Facebook page for his “Underground Wellness Radio” program that he was taking questions from his readers for an interview he would be conducting with Dr. Robert Lustig (listen to Sean’s 90-minute interview on BlogTalkRadio). What?! So much for the thought he’s not doing interviews. Sean invited me to submit a question for Dr. Lustig and here’s what I wrote: “Why is he such a vigilant opponent of fructose/sugar, but not all starchy and culprit carbohydrates?” I was hoping Sean would ask Dr. Lustig my question and Sean didn’t disappoint when he started asking questions from his listeners towards the end. Here’s the answer Dr. Lustig gave to the question which gets to the very root of why he says he doesn’t believe in the healthy low-carb lifestyle and thus the reason for initially turning me down for an interview.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH0_g5acZdo

After explaining to Sean Croxton his reasons for not coming on my show, I decided to write Dr. Lustig another e-mail requesting an interview on my podcast. Here’s what I wrote:

Dr. Lustig, I understand you think my show is solely about low-carb diets, but it really is so much more than that. I’ve featured all sorts of people in the world of nutrition and health on my podcast, including people who disagree with low-carb diets such as Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. Richard Johnson, and an upcoming interview with Dr. Neal Barnard for example. Your work deserves a greater platform and I’d be honored to add you to my distinguished list of guests. THANK YOU again for your consideration!

I wouldn’t normally pursue an interview guest again once they’ve turned me down because there are plenty of people out there for me to interview. But so many of my readers and listeners have been positively impacted by this video that I felt Dr. Lustig was worth the extra effort. I’m glad I didn’t give up because here was his response back to me within 12 hours:

Mr. Moore,

I will do your show with the understanding that I don’t necessarily subscribe to “low-carb”. I do subscribe to “safe-carb”.

Sincerely,

Robert Lustig

AWESOME! We’ve set the afternoon of June 15, 2010 to record the interview and it will air on “The Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb Show” on Monday, July 5, 2010. I can’t wait to speak with him and ask him to define what he means by “safe-carb.” It should make for an intriguing conversation. Feel free to send me questions for Dr. Lustig anytime to livinlowcarbman@charter.net. I’m glad he changed his mind about coming on my show and hopefully he will see that my podcast is about so much more than low-carb.

May 26th, 2010 | Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | Category: 1
  • Michelle from Durham

    Cool Jimmy. I am so glad you were kept asking. I wonder what he means by safe carbs, too.

  • Michael

    I am thinking the only reason he won’t “subscribe” to low-carb is because he doesn’t want to get pigeon-holed in to being another low-carb doctor. Its been done already by many doctors and he would just be another in that long line. How many video hits would he have if that were his message? Far less, I’d imagine. In other words, he is touting a part of the message we all already know as a new message. Perhaps he is doing this because he thinks people might be more willing to drop sugar than carbs as a whole and thinks it may be a good compromise if it gets people to listen…ok fine, that is possible, but his stern stance about not “subscribing to low-carb” and his initial refusal to do the interview lead me to believe his agenda is based more on his own personal notoriety, which, in my mind, makes him a sell out. Whatever…do people REALLY need this dietary pussy-foot to tell them sugar is bad for them? Give me a break.

    Jimmy, good luck with him! I am sure you will have a good time with this one. Ha!

    Ask him about saturated fat for me, would you? Gee whiz, I wonder what he’ll say about that…probably will use Dean Ornish as a “lifeline”.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      To be fair, Dr. Lustig is highly-respected by many of the science leaders in the low-carb world for his work on fructose and sugar. I know he and Gary Taubes have had a few heated discussions over the role of carbohydrate vs. sugar where Dr. Lustig contends it is the removal of sugar that explains why low-carb diets work. Hopefully we can get that comparison study done looking at a sugar-free diet vs. a sugar/starch-free diet. All I know is whole grains, potatoes, rice, pasta, beans, and more raise my blood sugar just like sugar does. In this n=1 experiment, notch one up for low-carb!

  • http://thepaleogarden.com Zach

    You literally never cease to amaze me with your polite tenacity. Definitely going to be on the look out for the Lustig interview on Livin La Vida Low Carb.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      THANKS buddy! I don’t like to force the issue if someone doesn’t want to be on my show. But some people I know would make for a fascinating interview and Dr. Lustig is one of them.

  • JD

    There are very few if any ‘safe carbs’ if you are pre-diabetic or diabetic unless you follow Dr. Bernstein’s rules and carb sources. There are plenty of people who are overweight who claim they never were addicted to or ingested a whole lot of sugar but gained weight on refined carbs. Once you have a damaged metabolism there are few if any ‘safe carbs’.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      I tee-totally agree, JD. Defining what “safe-carb” means will be my first question for the interview.

  • http://www.geniessen-im-optimum.de Felix Olschewski

    That’s good news, Jimmy.

  • http://kostbloggeren.blogspot.com budzinski

    In my way of thinking ‘safe carbs’ are non-grain and non-legume starches such as potatoes, tubers and rice in amounts that do not cause weight gain. Obviously carbs from most vegetables should be counted as safe as well as perhaps those from a fruit or two a day, provided still that you don’t pile on the pounds with these in your diet.

    You pointed it out yourself, Jimmy, in your interview with Robb Wolf. The lowcarb-people and the paleo-people are merging. Applying both principles and then adjusting your carb intake to your individual needs is probably, like fat, where it’s at!

    FYI Alan Aragon did an interesting review of Lustig’s lecture and in the comments section you can even see the Doctor chiming in: http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      If your definition of “safe-carb” is true (which I have no doubt it falls right in line with Dr. Lustig’s), then really he shouldn’t have a problem with using the term “low-carb.” Mark Sisson is a very high-profile figure in the low-carb/Paleo community and yet he doesn’t shy away from using low-carb despite advocating for upwards of 100+ grams of carbohydrate daily. When you remove the fructose/sugar from the diet, it’s hard to overload on carbs when you are eating “in amounts that do not cause weight gain.” And that number varies from person to person. I know I can’t have sugar or starchy carbs or my blood sugar/insulin levels spike. So I’m on the low end of the spectrum whereas someone else may be able to tolerate more. It’s still all considered “low-carb.”

  • Lynda

    Hi Jimmy – I am fascinated by this fructose/corn syrup debate and will listen to your interview with Dr Robert Lustig. I have no doubt that fructose is playing a major part in the obesity of Americans but my question is this: I live in New Zealand where we do not use fructose to sweeten (corn syrup) – we still use cane sugar – yet we have around the third highest rate of obesity in the world (behind US and Mexico apparently). If fructose explains the US obesity then how can we explain the New Zealand obesity epidemic? Obviously sugar is still very much to blame as is carbs in general. I will be interested to hear what is said.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      THANKS Lynda! Isn’t cane sugar half fructose/half glucose? He’d say it’s the fructose that’s leading to the obesity. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

  • http://www.skinnyemmie.com Emily

    I’m so glad you were persistent and he agreed to do the podcast. I saw this video a few months ago and was enthralled. It made crystal clear sense to me, and I’ve shared it with many people- low carbers and not- and they all agree it’s got legs. I’m looking forward to the podcast.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      THANKS Emmie! Ever since I saw the video and the strong positive response from low-carbers I knew I wanted to interview him. Happy it gonna happen!

  • Davide

    I have also read that cane sugar and HFCS both contain about equal amounts of fructose and glucose. So to eliminate fructose from one’s diet, one would have to abstain not only from foods high in HFCS, but also foods high in any type simple sugars, including; honey, molasses, corn syrup, sucrose, dextrose, maltose, as well as high-fructose fruits (rasins, dates, figs, etc..) and high-sucrose fruits (papya, appricots, pinapple, etc.) .

    QUESTION: For anyone who does *not* have diabetes, have you ever tried purchasing one of those blood sugar testers that you can buy at CVS, and testing your sugar levels with different changes in your diet?

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Table sugar if 50/50 fructose and glucose, but HFCS is 55% fructose and 45% glucose. As for testing blood sugar, I’ve been doing that for the past year intermittently to know where I stand and I’m not diabetic. Fascinating results! :)

  • Matt Brody

    Cane sugar is 50% of each. HFCS is 55% Fructose. Methinks HFCS is not the culprit to the extent that advertisers are making it out to be; replacing HFCS with cane sugar buys you little except public perception of a healthier, less processed food. More the issue is the food manufacturers’ over reliance on HFCS, fueled by government-subsidized corn. Switching while keeping the sweetener content the same will only raise cost, not improve health. Kill the subsidies to really drive up the cost of “sweet” and we just might get products that are not as heavily sweetened.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Follow the money!

  • http://primaltoad.com Primal Toad

    I just watched the video by UW and really enjoyed it. I came across Sugar: The Bitter Truth before but never wanted to spend 90 minutes to watch it. There is no doubt that I will make time for it now. And I will pass around the video like crazy. I will do a blog post alone about it – maybe a series after I watch it.

    Thanks for this Jimmy!

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      It really is amazing and Dr. Lustig has a LOT more in common with the typical low-carber than he realizes.

  • http://www.livingthenourishedlife.com Elizabeth

    I think all of your listeners will appreciate your persistance, Jimmy! I know I’m looking forward to it. I think it’s important to remember that we can all learn from each other, even if we don’t agree on every single variable.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Exactly Elizabeth! That’s why I especially wanted him to come on my podcast. Glad he changed his mind.

  • Deborah

    There are different types of HFCS. Dr. Eades has a very good post on this:

    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ads-on-the-edge/high-fructose-corn-syrup-fights-back/

    “There are basically three versions of HFCS: one containing 42% fructose, another containing 55% fructose and one containing 90% fructose. The most commonly used by far is the second, the one with 55% fructose. Since sucrose (table sugar) is 50% fructose and 50% glucose, there really isn’t much difference, and most of the studies seem to bear that out.”

    Unfortunately, ingredient labels don’t tell us which one was used.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      And truth be told, there are more then just TWO kinds of LDL as Dr. Lustig claims in his lecture. Actually there are sub-fractions of the large and small as well. Will be a fantastic conversation indeed!

  • AllenS

    Lustwig at least identifies one of the legs of the tripod of what’s wrong with the western diet. It’s a shame that he fails to recognize grains and seed oils as being in the same camp as fructose (when your only tool is a hammer …) Also, I can’t agree with him on fiber and exercise. There are several studies out there to show that large quantities of either are not particularly helpful, and in many ways harmful. It would be great if you could bring up these points in your interview with him.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      He’s a mixed bag of getting to the truth with just a hint of conventional wisdom still left in him. Maybe our conversation will help lead him down the path to discover the rest.

  • Cathi Gross

    Listening to Dr. Lusting’s Video on U-Tube. . .What I heard about fruitose eaten in Whole Form such as in a piece of fruit is not the problem, but the manufactured High Fruitose Corn Syrup was, because of the way the body digested it or didn’t digest it. It seemed to go straight to the liver causing magor problems. It’s like a slow poisen to the body. Where Fruitoise eaten in whold foods, such as a piece of fruit or a vegitable was digested diffrently because of it being connected to fiber and other parts of the whole fruit or vegitable. At least that is what I heard. Please forgive me for my spelling today. My mind is a bit foggy. . .Anyway, I believe that eating to many carb is still a problem and my body sure dosn’t do well eating alot of carbs with or without Fruitose. But, again each body is different and mine has been compromised from Autoimmune Desease such as Thyroid, Adrenal, and Celiac Desease. Oh Joy. . .and the Doctor is still trying to figure out what else. So, far Low Carb is best for me for keeping the weight off.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Cutting the sugar without cutting most of the other starchy and culprit carbs is like only washing the front side of your body in the shower. You might look and smell clean at face value, but there’s an ugly, smelly rear that’s impossible to ignore.

  • JD

    I’m no fan of Lyle McDonald but he is no fan of Dr. Lustig: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/straight-talk-about-high-fructose-corn-syrup-what-it-is-and-what-it-aint-research-review.html Lyle says obesity is multi-factorial and not a one note song as Dr. Lustig claims. I don’t necessarily disagree with that.

    The issue is that if you read Taubes, refined carbs and sugar were all consumed by changing societies at the same time to their detriment. Hard to weed out the sugar from the refined carbs. The Kitavans ate/eat a high carb diet but do/did not suffer the diseases of civilization. Of course they do/did not eat a lot of sugar or refined carbs as I understand things. So once again, carbs from ‘real’ food MAY be safe IF you do not have a damaged metabolism.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      And yet a lot of people do have a “damaged metabolism.”

  • http://paleoforlife.blogspot.com/ Bill

    I would say that anybody who has eaten sugar and grains for any length of time, will have a damaged metabolism to a greater or lesser degree. I would also include vitamin D levels as another critical factor.
    The long term outcome cannot be known until you reach middle and old age.
    For me, retrospectively, as a baby and infant, I suffered from glue ear and deafness, which I now blame on my diet back then.
    Dental problems in my teens, I would say were diet related.
    You can’t turn the clock back, or influence your mother’s diet during pregnancy, all you can do is damage limitation, and hope for the best as the years fly by….

  • Lynda

    Thanks everyone for the info about cane sugar v corn syrup. 50/50 huh? Well that explains why New Zealand is so obese (well that and the fact that everyone is so addicted to carbs now).

  • Bob

    Very difficult to say that “fructose”, as an abstract, ingerdient is good or bad. Bit like saying “gluten” as an abstract ingredient is good or bad. I thought I was gluten intolerant until I discovered it was the the structure of sugars found in wheats, not the protein. In wheats with lower protein/gluten the effect became worse! I wonder how many people are wheat intolerant, but not gluten intolerant and don’t know the difference. Fructose/sugars too are a complex issue. The fructose you find in, say, and orange is completely intolerable to me, but not the type you find in a mango or apple. It is how the fructose is blended with other sugars in the fruit that matters. And if that wasn’t enough, by the time these sugars reach your stomach they aren’t pure sugars anymore. If you’re eating proteins, fats or carbs while you ingest this fructose element, you’ve made something else instead. The stomach is one big mixing bowl of chemistry. Researching the molecular structure of sugars in food would make the average person dizzy and choosing foods would become far too challenging. It’s enough to know that anyone who says “fructose bad”….”Gluten bad”… has simplified the problem into a useless slogan.

  • Marielize

    Hi Jimmy, I am looking forward to the interview. I respect dr Lustig a lot. I also agree with him that complex carbs is not that unhealthy and maybe important for youngsters growing up.
    He showed us how fructose is a poison for all of us. His whole field of study is how fructose cause Syndrome X.
    Rob Wolff’s field of study is focusing on GI an GL and that grains are worse for blood sugar stability than sugar. He feels that sugar has been demonised unfairly when it comes to blood sugar instability.

    Both of these guys are looking at their own field of study in isolation – they are both right and they are both wrong for excluding the other side of the coin.

    Jimmy could you ask dr Lustig the following?
    What if you are managing your Syndrome X from long term fructose abuse? Is the carbs that cause fast blood sugar rises still innocent if you have “broken” insulin receptors? Could it be that only when you are healthy and young, complex carbohydrates will be harmless and healthy?

  • Michael

    Who really gives a crap how the “sugar vs carb” study comes out? We know that we get absolutely no benefit from eating whole grains, starches, etc…why are we trying to justify eating them? Before I even care how his little sugar/carb study comes out, he needs to do a study showing why I need to eat whole grains in the first place.

  • Davide

    The major strike against sugar is its addictive properties, which as Lustig notes is similar in its properties to that of alcohol. From what I can tell, no other chemical in food is as addictive as sugar is. And for this reason alone, it is justifiably be singled out.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      I would even say it’s even more addictive than cocaine with similar withdrawal symptoms, Davide. That said, there’s nothing wrong with singling out sugar as a major culprit in weight and health issues. But to ignore foods that turn to sugar in the body (starchy carbohydrates) as an equal factor in the equation is shortsighted. It’s amazing how the more we know, the less educated we become.

  • pjnoir

    if starchy carbs act like sugars- I don’t see why it is okay to eat them. Perhaps he doesn’t really know what a low carb lifestyle is, many think it is Zero Carbs- it ain’t. or, I think he doesn’t want to be identified with any Atkins-Low carb types. Shame.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      I will certainly be asking him what his definition of low-carb is.

  • Amy

    Perhaps sugar is the prime culprit in metabolic syndrome. It’s certainly possible and worth exploring. However, it’s not like metabolic syndrome is the only health issue we’ve got. What about digestive problems/food malabsorption, autoimmune diseases, food allergies, bladder problems, mental illness, etc.? They’re all quite common (probably just as common as Syndrome X, I would imagine) but seldom mentioned by the news media. How do high-carbohydrate diets affect these health conditions? Isn’t that worth exploring too? I think so!

    Thank you for your tenacity in getting Dr. Lustig on your show!

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Actually, Amy, Dr. Richard Feinman and Dr. Jeff Volek conducted a study looking at all of the elements of metabolic syndrome and the conditions that low-carb nutrition improves and they line up perfectly. Click here to learn more about it! There are certainly a LOT more possibilities at play here than sugar and neglecting the negative impact of starchy and other non-sugary processed carbohydrates is short-sighted for someone purporting to follow the science. I would argue many of those other conditions you mentioned, including cancer, are absolutely made worse by a high-carbohydrate diet. THANKS for your input, Amy!

  • Davide

    From what I can tell, starchy carbs do not stimulate Ghrelin hormonal response like Fructose does, nor do they suppress Leptin. Therefore, the person will become more hungry after pre-loading on fructose, and, like a drug, will crave more and more food to achieve the same satiety effect.

    Conversely, when a person eats starchy carbs, they become full at the right time because the glucose gets transmitted to the brain properly to regulate satiety signals, or through the release of insulin in the blood or whatever. So the two are not the same animals, at least, from what I have been reading. I could be completely wrong about this, as I am no expert, but it doesn’t sound like starchy carbs (which is only glucose) are no where near the danger as Fructose is, given all its other bad side effects as well.

  • Davide

    By the way Jimmy, thanks for the tip on the blood glucose monitor. I just ordered a One Touch Ultra Mini, so we’ll see how my blood sugar varies with what I eat…should be interesting.

  • Sarah

    Safe carbs? Carbs are converted to sugar, regardless. I was never a cola junkie, juice junkie or a store bought cookie junkie. The weight I put on came from potatoes, pasta, rice.. all that crap at the bottom of the food pyramid. Fructose wasn’t the cause of my weight gain. Starchy carbs were my downfall and the more I ate, the hungrier I got.

  • Amanda

    After listening to his podcast, the man is brilliant. Thanks so much for interviewing him. He’s not saying it’s the only cause of obesity but it’s one that has been proved by research.

  • Anoush Alexanian

    It is simply amazing how damaging sugar is, and how low key it is when considering our health. I cannot believe that actual national ads have been created to support high fructose corn syrup when it is clearly proven to damage and dispel ones health.
    In my opinion, a few generations from now, the emphasis on low carb diets will subside and instead be replaced by a shocking truth about the amount of sugar and sodium used in foods.

    • http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com Jimmy Moore

      Oh, I think people know how much sugar and salt (to a MUCH lesser degree) is in their food…they just haven’t been convinced to care about it yet!

  • Emily

    I don’t think people know how much sugar is in their food at all. When someone reads the nutrition facts label on the back of a product, it will say “Sugar: ___ g.” To the average American, educated or not, the amount of sugar is just a number floating around, I don’t believe it has any contextual value. Sugar and HFCS has become such a huge part of the American diet and I think since it is so engrained that people don’t realize how much sugar is actually in their food. Also, I don’t think the problem is peoples’ apathy about sugar. I think the problem is that people don’t realize the implications of sugar (as described by Dr. Lustig in Sugar: The Bitter Truth).